Are you still chasing goals you created years ago? Do you understand how to take a systematic approach to create the life you’ve always wanted? Or do you feel stuck day after day?

I’ve never been great at creating, setting, or following through on my goals. Actually, I am awesome at creating them, but finding simple ways to follow through on my goals and hold myself accountable has always been much harder for me.

In the episode, I was fortunate enough to chat with Drew Amoroso on productivity, setting goals, systematic strategies to improve your day to day, and much more.

Learn everything you wanted to know about productivity, on Episode 002.

"If you're going to get up every day, you really need to have the why part figured out."

Drew Amoroso is a man on a mission to help out young professionals manage their time, be more productive, and create the life they have always wanted.

If you haven’t heard of Drew Amoroso, is the founder of Move Associates and its principal trainer. He started his career as a litigator at a global law firm where he rose to the level of senior associate in four years. At the firm, he served on its hiring committee and as the head of the San Francisco office’s summer program, where he was responsible for overseeing and training summer associates.

It was there he noticed that associates don’t really get any formal training on how to live day to day as an attorney and the idea for Move Associates was born.

Today we cover everything from running your own business to nutrition and the mindset of a champion. I felt extremely fortunate to be able to sit down with him and I know you’ll enjoy this episode.

Discover all of that and much more, on Episode 002.

A Few Questions I Ask:

  • How do you continue to move forward? (11:29)
  • Do you think people are completely wired “Type A” or is some of that learned behavior? (23:33)
  • How did you make the decision to leave your firm? (29:58)
  • What would help you best today? Not necessarily what would make my ego feel better today? (37:35)
  • And much more..

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

  • How to detach yourself from your ego (37:37)
  • How to use the idea of moving forward (11:30)
  • How to defragment your business idea (32:40)
  • And much more..
Click here to read full transcript of episode

Drew: It’s the ego thing again. You gotta just detach yourself from that. And it’s hard, too, especially when it’s your own business. Like, “This is my idea. You don’t like my idea? I know that this will be good for you and this will add a lot of value. Don’t you see that?” So, initially there is that feeling of like, “This has to do with me.” It doesn’t have to do with, exactly what you’ve said, they just don’t align for whatever reason.

Sean: It’s like your baby. Whatever came up and made that idea is really hard to detach. It’s like when you’re angry. It’s easy for somebody to say, “Hey, I’m an angry person.” You’re not though. You’re a person that’s experiencing the feeling of anger right now.

Sean: It’s kind of the same thing. It’s like, “I own this business.” Well, you’re a human being, and you happen to be running this business right now. But when you’re like, “This is my business,” so if you view it from that point and you get rejected, it cuts deep.

Drew: Yeah, it cuts real deep. It is difficult to remove yourself from that and that’s why I try to start every day being like, “I am not my business.” I try not to get every day and start thinking about what I have to do that day. I try to think about my girlfriend and my family, and what I need to do to take care of myself that day, instead of intertwining every single piece of me with my business.

Sean: Do you start your day with a systemized routine, or are you a fly-by-night kind of guy, or how?

Drew: Yeah, usually the first 30 minutes, at least, 30 to 45 minutes, I meditate for 10 minutes. I read. I have stuff that I just like to read every morning that kind of gets me in the right frame of mind. Just drink water and coffee and all that.

Sean: Coffee. Yeah, absolutely coffee, if you need to take notes.

Drew: Oh yeah, sure.

Sean: Absolutely coffee, man. I’m actually starting to realize it was, probably seven years ago, when I started to hit coffee and stimulants hard, is when I first started sales. I didn’t want to be in the frame of mind of getting rejected. That didn’t feel good. So an easy way to change a state of mind was to drink coffee because it was a stimulant, and it almost was a distraction. It was like watching TV. And it’s just now, working through some of that detachment stuff, where I’m like, “Oh, shit, I think I still use coffee.” Not all the time, but sometimes to be like, “I don’t want to do this thing at work right now. What’s an easy deflection and distraction? Oh, I’ll just drink coffee,” because that changes a state of mind.

Sean: Instead of using it to enhance. I need to be careful. It’s not like heroin or something, but it’s a drug. I need to be careful, like, “Okay, how many cups is this? Why am I drinking this?” It’s easy. It’s socially acceptable, it’s cheap, everybody does it. But I gotta be careful with that kind of stuff.

Drew: Oh yeah, me too. It’s an escapism. It can be an escape if you just need a break. I stop drinking coffee after one o’clock, because it’ll give me that high for an hour but the crash that I have after that is way worse. It totally negates whatever bump I would have gotten.

Sean: Oh, so you fall harder on the back end.

Drew: I fall hard. Yeah, even if I’ve drank water and all that kind of stuff, I still fucking crush really bad.

Sean: Oh, yeah, I was just gonna start with, tell us about what you do. Tell us who you are. Who are you, sir.

Drew: Starting from birth.

Sean: Kind of go from there. Yeah, what do you guys apparently do? What you provide and your thoughts on that.

Drew: Do you want to start now?

Sean: Yeah.

Drew: So, I started my career as an attorney. I’m from Pennsylvania originally, moved out here in 2007 to go to law school at Davis. And I started my career at a big firm in San Francisco, which is one of the main goals for a lot of attorneys. Start at a big firm. It’s kind of the grand prize. And I did that for about five years, enjoyed it, it was great. I had a lot awesome mentors there and learned a lot, and it was a good way to cut my teeth. But after about four years, I started to feel a little antsy.

Sean: Day’s not yours.

Drew: Yeah, day wasn’t mine and I had some other ideas about things that really got out me of bed in the morning and excited. And one of those things was, at the time I was doing a lot of working out at San Francisco CrossFit. I’m still a member there. And I noticed that there were a lot fitness innovators who were coming through there who had products and were doing awesome stuff in the fitness world, but they didn’t have anyone representing them.

Drew: So that’s when I had the light bulb moment and was like, “Oh, I should represent these innovators.”

Sean: To handle all the legal stuff for them and along that line?

Drew: Yeah, help them protect their brands, grow their business, make sure that the agreements they were entering were fair. So I left my firm and started my own firm called Move Legal, and loved it, it was awesome. Represented a lot of great companies. Supplement companies, gym owners, fitness models and superstars and stuff like that. And did that for about a year and a half, and then had that for a second time, was like, “Oh, I’m not really sure if this is it.”

Drew: One of the things I had been really interested in over the years was working with attorneys. So like training and mentoring attorneys. I don’t know how much you know about the attorney world.

Sean: My mom was a legal secretary my whole life, so I get it. And Jess, my wife, works on the legal team of Palantir Technologies, so I get the personality, but I don’t know their day to day stuff. I know that all of them work 28 out of 24 hours a day, you know what I mean. Specifically on their team, they’re traveling a lot, so we’re talking overnights to Heathrow and back.

Sean: I was like, “When do you sleep?” They’re like, “Oh, I slept on the plane a little bit, and then I had a meeting and I flew back.” What. You know, that kind of stuff.

Drew: It’s very much that kind of a culture. So, coming out of law school, you learn a lot about the law. Like, black letter law and how to apply it. But a lot of the practical skills you need to make it on a day-to-day basis just aren’t really taught that much. It’s just not really something that gets covered in law school. Then when you reach your first legal job, a lot of employers want to train you but don’t have the resources or the time to do it. So I noticed this problem where a lot of attorneys were entering the profession without any kind of training.

Sean: Young attorneys, so this could be their first law firm type gig after law school.

Drew: Yeah, new attorneys who are entering the profession for the first time, or even attorneys who had been down the road three, four, five, six years who just weren’t really taught how to spend their day. What are you supposed to do when you show up every day? How do you structure a productive day, how do you set goals for professional development, how do you work with other people? And it’s very unique to the profession. There just is not a lot of training that happens.

Drew: So I saw a problem and was like, “I’m really passionate about helping attorneys to figure out how to set those goals, meet their productivity requirements, and develop within their company.” So I started a company called Move Associates. I like the word move.

Sean: Move is good. I don’t know a soft tangent. When you were speaking to a lot of people that went to San Francisco CrossFit, and they would be more of the entrepreneurial type, like, “Hey, I’m going to do my own thing,” or, “I’m going to live really loud.”

Sean: I don’t know if it’s necessarily CrossFit, or just people that tend to move their bodies a lot? It’s like their brain then follows. That space is a lot of, “Oh yeah, I do this and I have this protein company and I’m a really good athlete.” I don’t even know if maybe those people are attracted, or if once they actually move, then their brain’s like, “Okay, I’m going to follow the movement now.” So that’s a pretty awesome name.

Drew: Yeah, I think that that environment fosters a lot of creativity and forward motion too. You get in that environment and you see other people who are doing incredible things. They’re actually not just talking about them, they’re going out and doing them.

Sean: They’re really doing them.

Drew: Yeah. So like this idea of motion and moving forward, I really like that and I think it encapsulates what I want to do for the legal profession. So I started this company about nine months ago, and our main product that we have is a 12 week training course. So a law firm would hire me to go in and work with their associates for 12 weeks. And we cover everything from professional goal setting to practice management, so again, like, “How do you structure what you do all day? When you come into the office, do you have routines, do you have habits? Do you even understand what is expected of you? And so if you’re supposed to meet this productivity goal, how are you going to back that up into weeks and days and hours so that you can basically plan it out?”

Drew: So I just love that kind of work. Helping people identify what they want and then showing them a path to get there.

Sean: When you were at the law and didn’t have training, were you your own customer at first? Is that where this stemmed from a little bit? Did you have a better grasp of, “Okay, I understand goals.”

Drew: I think for me, I recognized pretty quickly, because I read a lot of books. I read 4-Hour Work Week, I read all these books on productivity, and this would have been five years ago. And so I started to formulate some of these ideas that were not specific to the legal profession and bring them into my day-to-day. So I started to do those things and was like, “Wow, I’m getting a lot of results from this.” Like I moved up pretty quickly within the firm and was managing teams of associates, and so the things that I was doing were working for me. At the time, I didn’t even think about teaching other people to do it. It just hadn’t come to me yet.

Sean: Very nice, man.

Drew: So, when I was at the firm, that was when a lot of the stuff started to germinate for me. And I’m the president of the Barristers Club, which is basically the Bar Association of San Francisco, so I saw a lot of young attorneys who, in that setting, were coming in and being like, “I feel a little bit lost. I’m not really sure what to do with my career.” They were unhappy, and I felt like a lot of it was traced back to this training and expectations. Understanding what your role is at your job and having the leaders of your firm help you set a path for development, I just didn’t see a lot of that happening. So that was the genesis of it.

Sean: Okay, it wasn’t necessarily the law. They loved the law part. It was, “What do you do in those 10 hours?” Right. I wanted to say eight, but knowing attorneys, it’s more than that. Do you guys do like a productivity almost, “How do we structure this day,” types of training?

Drew: Yeah, so really, if you think about it, if you’re going to show up every day and bust your butt, you have to be driving towards something. If you’re going to get up every day, you really need to have the why part figured out. Like, “Why am I here? What is the point of this? Like, why am I getting up every day, what is this driving toward?” That part of it, I think, is lacking. People have their head down because they’re working 10 hours a day. It’s very stressful, so they’re not really spending any time to think about, “Where am I going with this?”

Drew: So we start with identifying the why, and then from there we move on to the how. Okay, so this is what your goal is, how are we gonna get there. So it’s productivity training, it’s working with others, so strategies for working with staff and working with supervisors. Client service. We talk a lot about how to service your clients and communicate with them the right way.

Sean: That’s a big one.

Drew: It’s a huge one.

Sean: [00:17:37] Everybody has a different language. Some people are visual, audio. That’s a big change, because as a young attorney you might be telling somebody something and you think they hear it, but it’s not sticking at all.

Drew: 100%. And the thing is no one teaches you how to do these things, right. This is the whole point. You come out of three years of professional training and you’ve learned the law, but no one has said to you, “Here’s how you should be communicating with clients. Here’s how you work with the staff who are a critical part of a law firm. Here’s how you work with your supervisors. This is the way you put together excellent work product.” So that kind of stuff, which really I know that this doesn’t happen much in the legal profession, but I feel like it’s probably something that a lot of professions, you sort of walk in, and they’re like, “Hey, welcome to the company. Here’s some work.”

Sean: Watch this quick video, here’s your desk.

Drew: Yeah, so it’s just that whole dynamic. And some companies do a great job of that, they train really well. But there’s still a lot of value that I think that companies could add to their workforce by focusing on training not only the beginning, but also throughout however long their employee is with them.

Sean: Yeah, and I noticed that too. Part of my business is helping people that feel unfit or motivated, maybe lost with nutrition, kind of guiding them towards what works for them. Helping them not be lost with nutrition, right. I’ll have an intake form, and it’s usually the last question, I put it towards the end, is, “Why now?” Two simple words, a question mark. I can see when people go down the nutrition intake form. I can see when people submit it and when they don’t.

Sean: What’s interesting is that question gets the most guff or whatever back towards me. Most people have a problem with that question more than anything. Height, weight, current goals, how you eat, are you paleo, all that kind of stuff. And that question either stops people from submitting the form, which is interesting. That’s something that I need to try to figure out. Or they’re like, “I don’t know what you mean,” or, “I don’t know.” All right, we need to take another layer off that onion and tackle that before anything, because if you don’t get up and know the why.

Sean: Like, the how and all that other stuff is just, maybe you can do it for a few months, but it’s not sustainable. Because you’re gonna run into roadblocks, and your boss is going to yell at you that day. You’re gonna have a 12 hour day where you’re doing legal things and you’re like, “What am I doing?”

Drew: One of the things that has really come into focus for me is that we are complicated. People are very complicated with our thoughts, our subconscious, the reasons we do or don’t do something. And so when you dig into that why part, it brings up some stuff for you, inevitably. For everybody. When you say, “Why are you doing this?” And then they’ll give you an answer, and you’re like, “No, but why. Really, why. Is this to support your family, is to be healthier, is it to make money. Is it for recognition. Why are you doing X, Y, or Z.”

Drew: And when you start to dig into that, it brings up a lot of things for people. But the truth is, if you’re going to get up every day and change your health, or, in my case, try to advance within your firm and get better, you have to have a reason that you get out of bed every day. Because you can easily fall back into those old habits if you’re not focused on that North Star answer to that question. So I think you’re totally right. That why part is tricky and for some people, they don’t want to confront it.

Sean: It’s easier to, “Okay, well, I’m doing the how right now and it’s working. Good enough. I’m a little bit miserable, but that’s a really scary.” I don’t even want to break the ice off that. There’s so much to unpack. Whether it’s now, current, a childhood thing, it could be a ton of stuff. And they’re like, “I don’t, I’m not.” Which is fine, because I would rather they were like, “I don’t want to unpack the why,” that’s great. We’re not gonna start yet. We’re not gonna do nutrition coaching or anything like that because we have to figure that out first. So it’s better than if we tried and started to do that, and then we didn’t.

Drew: Yeah, some people. I think for some people. Sorry, I just want to get a little.

Sean: Yeah, go for it.

Drew: It’s over here. Can we get a shot of both of us?

Sean: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, we can do. I think I have a little.

Sean: Oh hey, you know what, let me put this.

Drew: Oh, nice, look at that.

Sean: I have every little gadget, you know what I mean. This stuff. To the point where it’s like crazy. There you go.

Drew: Yeah. Nice, dude. Nice.

Sean: Hell yeah. I think eventually too, it would be cool to stick this thing up and do some kind of video feed. It doesn’t have to be live, but like a YouTube type thing or something.

Drew: Just keep cranking it around, it should be okay. Or crank the bottom. I think those little circles spin too. Yeah.

Sean: Oh there you go.

Drew: That was I think too tight.

Sean: Yeah, there we go. That’s way better. Nice, look at that, dude. That’s awesome. That’s pretty cool. Like, post that up, that’s awesome.

Drew: Nice, just let it run a little bit.

Drew: Just digging into that why part can be really tricky, and I think some people want to go there and they’re ready to do it, but it can be really heavy. For me, I don’t have any training in being a therapist or dealing with that kind of stuff, but it’s interesting how you see a lot of similarities between people who have been practicing law for a while and some of the issues that they have are a lot of the same issues. You sort of see the same things coming up, like that stuff that gets in people’s way. Reasons why they’re doing something or not doing something. Life issues. Not necessarily on the job issues, these are life issues. Anxious, or whatever it may be, in their life that is coming into their work.

Sean: Yeah. And both, too. Part of it is a certain personality type. So, with attorneys, I don’t know if you’re, oh yeah, Jess. They’re all Type A.

Drew: Everyone is Type A perfectionist.

Sean: Triangle and a square on the other one versus a circle and a squiggly line. Triangles and squares. It’s like, “A + B = C, this is the way it’s done.”

Drew: Yeah, and part of that is because in the legal profession you are trained to spot risk and you have a very analytical brain, so you see things in a certain way all the time. Instead of seeing the opportunity, a lot of times we see the risks that’s associated with it. A lot of the time it’s because-

Sean: You’re wired that way.

Drew: That’s how you’re wired, yeah. You’re trained that way in law school and every day you’re telling your clients, “Do this, don’t do this, here’s the rule. If you do this, you’ll go outside the box.” So that personality type comes with certain thought processes.

Sean: Makes sense, yeah.

Drew: And so I think people will shy away from opportunities, or they will justify certain thought processes because of that Type A, very perfectionist mentality.

Sean: So it’s probably almost hard for them to, when they go to use your services or something like that, and you start talking about, “We’ll get there, but we kind of need to take a step back and do some life work. Not from a therapy standpoint, but general life work to get where your head’s at.” Is that hard for a lot of them, even to be like, “I don’t understand why we’re doing this, let’s get to the how.” Yeah, I’m sure it’s gotta be challenging.

Drew: At least for me, I can’t deal with, “Well, we’re going to really dig into a lot of the emotions that you’re having,” like that’s a non-starter for everybody. That’s not like the primary part of the business in the course I teach. But inevitably, we have to talk about your motivations because you’re not going to follow through with the things that we talk about unless you’re clear on why you’re doing them in the first place.

Drew: So this isn’t like, “Lay down on the couch and tell me about your childhood.” How does that make you feel? What kind of stuff do you feel and think when this happens? Or what do you actually want? Do you want to make more money, or do you want more?

Sean: Do you want to be an attorney? Oh no.

Drew: We don’t go there. That would not be good for my business.

Sean: That’s not good for your business.

Drew: That’s not good for my business, no, if everybody is like, “Actually, I want to go open up a pastry shop somewhere.” So we focus on, “Where do you see yourself going within the firm? What do you want to achieve?” And making sure that that’s aligned with what the firm’s expectations are of them and helping those two concepts to meet, basically.

Sean: Okay, so are you guys reaching out to individual attorneys, or is it more a firm base, like, “Hey, we’re going to help not only your attorneys coming on but you as well with a more productive staff, now.” Or both?

Drew: It’s actually both. Most of my clients come through the firm side, so a firm will hire me to work with their associate and I inevitably end up working a lot with the firm, too, to help them identify what their expectations are and to say, “Okay, what do you want this associate to do? Do you want them to go do business development, do you want them to meet a certain billable hour goal, do you want them to help build up the systems and procedures of the firm? What do you want from them?”

Drew: So, part of it is helping the law firm to clarify what their expectations are and then working with the associates to make sure that those match. But there are associates who have joined the program just because they want to get better themselves. So it doesn’t have to come through a firm. I’ve gotten both, actually.

Sean: Nice, makes sense.

Drew: Yeah, sometimes firms are interested in it. Other times, the associate is like, “I just really wanna learn.”

Sean: Do you look at goals differently now than, let’s say you did, five years ago? Or do your timelines change on what maybe used to be like, “Okay, next week this needs to get done,” versus, “Okay, let’s look at like five years and then work backwards.”

Drew: I’m pretty sure I did not have goals five years ago. And this is part of my story. I just had my head down and was like, “Dum dee dum, I’m going along. Oh, someone says you should meet this many billable hours. Okay, great, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m just going to go to my office, I’m going to crank out work, and go home, and have a good personal life.” But I never stopped to think, “What am I doing? What direction am I going in? What is this for?”

Drew: It wasn’t until, really, I started my own business that I got really clear on goals, my whole expectations, writing them down, reviewing them regularly.

Sean: Yeah. That’s big. Do you write on pen and paper, or?

Drew: Always. And the science on this is pretty clear. When you write stuff down, it marries the left side of your brain, the right side of your brain, and electricity goes through your body when you actually are writing something down as opposed to just thinking it, or typing it out, it’s a totally different experience. That rings for me too, I write everything down.

Sean: Pen on paper.

Drew: Pen on paper.

Sean: Like if you look behind you, there is every single pen on paper and marker on paper that you can possibly think of.

Drew: I love this board. This board is awesome, though. Having a full wall of-

Sean: The whiteboard thing was pretty cool. Dr. Jimmy Bagley is a professor at San Francisco State, and we have a podcast we do with him, too, it’s called Pass Class. It helps people understand exercise science, but at a level where we use words everyone can understand what it is. And they have a giant whiteboard there, and that’s our brainstorming session. Putting a giant whiteboard in a room is probably not the most practical, so I went online and there’s whiteboard sticky paper that you can put on your wall, which is what that is. You can erase half your whiteboard and you don’t have to have a frame and drill.

Drew: I love that, I love that.

Sean: It’s not bad.

Drew: When I decided I wanted to wind up my firm and start this new company, which was about a year ago-

Sean: How was the decision too, by the way? Was that something you struggled with or was it like, “Yeah, this is what I’m doing, I get it.”

Drew: SO, I had this rumbling inside me for six weeks where I woke up every morning and was like, “I love my clients and I want to help them, but there’s something not right about what I’m doing every day. It had nothing to do with them, it was just inside me, I could feel it.”

Sean: Something from the body that came out and then your brain was trying to label it as, “What is this?”

Drew: 100%. I remember very clearly, it was a January morning, and I was laying around with my girlfriend. We were watching TV and I looked at her and I was like, “I don’t want to be an attorney anymore.”

Drew: She was like, “Okay, let’s talk about what you want to do.”

Sean: Oh, open to it. Oh, that’s awesome.

Drew: Oh, she was phenomenal about it. It was so easy for me to basically decide that I wanted to change, but then when I decided I wanted to change, well, now what am I going to do.

Drew: So, to your point about the whiteboard, my mom taught second grade for 30 years so we have a lot of big sheets of paper lying around in rolls.

Sean: Nice. Those went away, and they’re like the best things ever.

Drew: They’re so awesome. So I took this role of paper and cleared out my couch and a bunch of pictures on the wall, and put up this huge sheet of paper. And was like, “What am I good at? Where do I have credibility? What do I want? What do I want my day-to-day to look like? Who do I want to help?” And it was just this big up on the wall, all these scribbling ideas. I left it up there and just looked at it for a while.

Sean: Unfiltered, just subconscious. Nonsense, almost, that you’d look at it just came out.

Drew: Yeah. Just kind of came out. And I had some categories, but there was no rhyme or reason to it. And I started to chisel it down and realized that I really like working with attorneys, I want to create more. I wasn’t really creating on a day-to-day basis.

Sean: You were doing other people’s work, in your own way, but it wasn’t initially from you.

Drew: Yeah, it was very technical. Reading contracts, negotiating, stuff like that, which I enjoyed, but I wanted to be creative. I wanted to have my own business. I knew that. I think the act of actually writing it down, up on the wall, so that I could look at it and then process it. It almost cleared space and allowed new thoughts to come to me.

Sean: Okay. It’s like a defragmented. You remember on old PCs when you would run a defrag program? It kind of took all of that out so that you could look at it in a defrag area.

Drew: That’s actually a perfect explanation. There were pieces in there and so I knew pretty quickly that I wanted to make a change, but that process helped me figure out what it is I want to do. Last year, it was a pretty tough year, because I was an attorney. That was my identity, really, for six or seven years, and so to make that change brought up a lot of thoughts about what I’m good at, who I want to be, what kind of value I want to contribute. So that was a transformative year in a lot of ways.

Sean: Makes sense. Especially over here, in the West, we’re pretty conditioned. What’s the first question you usually ask, “Where are you from,” and then, “What do you do?” Or, “What do you do, and where are you from.” And it’s always answered with, “I am an attorney,” versus like, “I’m a human being. I enjoy surfing and hanging out with friends, and by the way, the work that I do is being an attorney.”

Sean: We just had a dinner with somebody who grew up in France. He was like, and I’m not going to try his accent because it’s too challenging, but he was like, “It’s an interesting question that I had to get used to.” Because over there, that’s not asked. It doesn’t really matter because that doesn’t define you, so the, “What would you do,” question is not really a thing. It’s something he had to get used to. It’s interesting. We’re like, “This is me. I am an attorney.” I give it up, that’s challenging to get through.

Drew: Yeah, it’s challenging because, like you said, that’s what you associate with and when people ask you, “What do you do?” There’s an ego associated with that. And so for about nine months, people would say, “What do you do?” And I’d be like, “Well. I did this for a while, but I have this idea,” and people were like, “Okay.”

Drew: So that took a little adjustment for me, but that was what we were talking about before. If you can detach the ego part from it and just get comfortable with yourself and not need this external validation for your idea, because especially with attorneys, I tell attorneys what I wanted to do, and they would be like, “Does not compute.”

Sean: That does not fit.

Drew: Like, “You want to do what? You’re leaving? What are you going to do for money? How are you going to survive? Are you okay? I’m worried about you.”

Sean: You’re breaking down and you’re not even 30. You’re losing it, man

Drew: I had one friend, I’ll never forget. We were driving up to UC Davis. That’s where we went to law school. And we were in the car, and he was legitimately concerned about me. When I was telling him what my idea was, and I didn’t really have it fully formulated yet, he’s like, “I can’t even really talk about this.” He’s like, “It makes me really nervous for you.” He felt all wrangled up about it, like twisted, because he couldn’t really process. For him, the level of uncomfortability that it even made him feel just hearing me be like, “I think this is what I’m going to do and I’m going after it.” He was all in knots himself.

Drew: And so that was a really interesting thing. Again, it’s that mindset that you have. I had to unwind a lot of that just to get to the point that I’m at because that was how I was trained. But you can’t operate with that kind of mindset on a daily basis.

Sean: No, yeah. I struggle with all the time when I’m making decisions on the current business ’cause a lot of the time is a challenging, okay, get up, have some coffee, meditate, maybe journal all of the nonsense that is circling my brain, and then take a step back and like, “Okay, this is what I want to do, but it’s not for me. I’m servicing other people.” Changing that from what picture should I put to how can I best help these people that I’m helping right now, and come from that place? What would help them the best today? Not necessarily what would make my ego feel better today?

Drew: That’s an awesome point and if I can wake up every day and think, “How can I help the people that I work with the best? What’s the best way for me to approach this if my goal is to provide value to them?” A lot of times, that helps me make the decision of how I want to do it. So, to your point about what picture do I pick, or do I underline this instead, it’s like, no, they don’t care. Nobody cares about that. It doesn’t matter. Just do it and move on to the next thing, and concentrate on the value part. These little details generally don’t matter that much, but it’s just hard to get out of that laser focus on the little details. But that’s a really good reminder to just wake up every day and be like, “What am I going to do to help my clients the most?” That’s really the way to focus in on it.

Sean: How can I best help them. Nice. Yeah, I think I struggle sometimes with it being black or white, good or bad, type thing. And it’s not good or bad from your position, it’s bad to a spectrum of good from what they need from you, and everybody’s different.

Sean: I’m sure you have, I was going to ask about your clientele, might be somebody who’s just getting started all the way up to the seasoned person that maybe had never looked at, oh, “Why am I doing this the way I am?” It’s got to be different.

Drew: Yeah, so I have-

Sean: What time is it? 3:37. We’re getting close.

Drew: Cool.

Sean: Probably ask you a few more questions.

Drew: Yeah man, this is awesome. So I’ve had a couple of people who’ve been practicing for 25+ years who have gone through my program, and the things that they are looking to achieve are different from someone who’s only a couple of years into their practice. Their habits are seriously ingrained in them after doing something for 25 years, and so a lot of times with them it’s just helping them to unwind some of the things that get in their way, every day, consistently.

Drew: And for them, it’s a lot of mindset. We do a lot of mindset stuff in the class. And for them, a lot of times, it’s just a mindset block. I like this saying, “Small hinges swing big doors.”

Sean: I like that. That’s nice. Makes sense.

Drew: Yeah. It’s one of my favorite concepts. And really, what I found is you unlock this little change and it opens up this spectrum of opportunity that they had never even thought about before. Because you get in a very one track mind, and we all do in a lot of ways. But for some of these people who have been doing this for a while, you just give them just a little bit of a shift. Maybe something that they change, like a small routine or something like that, and it unlocks this huge amount of opportunity.

Drew: So, for those people who have been practicing for a while, that can be a really big help for them.

Sean: It’s a game changer. Makes sense. Very cool, man.

Drew: Yeah.

Sean: Well, is there anything that I haven’t asked that you would want me to ask today?

Drew: No, man. This was awesome. I appreciate the opportunity to come and chat, and this is, for people who run their own business, it’s good to talk to other people who in the same position, because you-

Sean: You’re lonely.

Drew: It’s lonely, and you can spend a lot of time in your own head. And it’s good to surround yourself with other people who are doing the same things and who you can hear other people’s stories and say, “I can totally relate to that.” And it’s a little bit of validation that what you’re going through-

Sean: You’re on the right path.

Drew: You’re on the right path.

Sean: There isn’t a tunnel. It’s your own path.

Drew: Yeah, it’s your own path, right. And there’s a confidence building that comes with that, and it’s the rollercoaster that everybody goes on. I was actually saying it to a friend of mine the other day. He’s an entrepreneur, and I was saying, “I feel like I’m on this rollercoaster every single day.”

Drew: And he’s significantly farther down the line than I am, and he’s like, “It doesn’t change.” He’s like, “The highs and the lows, it doesn’t matter if you’ve been doing it for a year, or 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, like the rollercoaster is still there.” I think stuff like this is important so that you can hear what other people are going through. And even if there’s a couple little things that help to unlock something for somebody else, it’s hugely important.

Sean: Very cool. I appreciate it, man. Well, where can people find you?

Drew: So the name of my company is Move Associates. We’re at move-associates.com. I’m on Instagram at move.associates. Yeah, I’d love to hear from people, if they want to DM me and reach out, I’d love to connect.

Sean: Very cool. Thank you, sir.

Drew: Thank you, dude. Appreciate it.

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